Changing the Status Quo Through Consulting with Renee Rubin Ross
"I really think my zone of genius is actually having hard conversations and talking about truths that people don't want to talk about. Or that might be hard, but you need to get through them in order to get to the other side and let people feel seen and feel a sense of belonging," - Renee Rubin Ross
Changing the Status Quo Through Consulting with Renee Rubin Ross
If you're feeling frustrated trying to balance inclusive collaboration and fair compensation, and finding yourself overworked and underpaid, then you are not alone!
This is Renee's story:
Renee's journey began with a transformative experience at a previous job. Feeling unfulfilled in a hierarchical and unsupportive environment, she made the courageous decision to seek change. After a period of self-reflection and regrouping, she emerged with a newfound clarity of purpose. Through her blog, she shared her reflections and learnings, creating a space for others to relate and engage in meaningful conversations. This experience led her to establish the Ross Collective, a platform where she collaborates with an array of talented individuals, sharing a common goal of advocating for equity and inclusion. Renee's story is one of resilience and growth, a testament to the power of embracing change and turning adversity into opportunity. Her journey illustrates the importance of fostering open dialogue and building positive, collaborative relationships, which have become the cornerstone of her work in the nonprofit sector.
Key Highlights:
Mastering the Art of Starting a Nonprofit Consulting Business: Learn the essential steps to kickstart your nonprofit consulting venture and make a meaningful impact.
Fostering Inclusive and Equitable Consultancies: Uncover the key strategies to create an inclusive and equitable environment within your business.
Unveiling Effective Marketing Strategies for Nonprofit Consultants: Explore innovative marketing approaches tailored specifically for nonprofit consultants, amplifying your reach and impact.
Conquering Challenges in Nonprofit Consulting: Gain valuable insights on overcoming common obstacles in nonprofit consulting, empowering you to navigate hurdles with confidence and resilience.
Timestamped summary of this episode:
00:00:00 - Introduction to the Ross collective
The podcast hosts introduce Renee as the founder of the Ross collective, which focuses on inclusive strategic planning with an equity lens. Renee also teaches nonprofit management at Cal State East Bay and writes thought leadership content.
00:09:49 - Finding Your Superpower
Renee shares her journey from being let go from what she thought was her dream job to founding the Ross collective. She emphasizes the importance of reflecting on strengths and experimenting with different services to find what aligns with one's passion and skills.
00:12:42 - Collaborating with Partners
Renee discusses her collaborative approach to consulting, highlighting partnerships with Crystal Cherry and other BIPOC consultants. She emphasizes the importance of transparent and equitable collaborations, especially when it comes to discussing finances and compensation.
00:14:40 - Creating Anti-Capitalist Businesses
The conversation touches on the importance of transparency in business to redistribute power and information, particularly in the nonprofit sector. Renee shares her belief in creating anti-capitalist businesses and the impact of transparency on partnership dynamics and compensation.
00:15:21 - Navigating Partnership and Subcontracting in Consultancy
Renee discusses the challenges of navigating partnerships and subcontracting in consultancy, highlighting the importance of enjoying working relationships and setting clear expectations structurally and financially.
00:18:42 - Favorite Coffee Shops and Forms of Exercise
Renee shares her favorite coffee shops in Oakland and discusses her love for running as a form of exercise, emphasizing its mental and physical benefits.
00:20:41 - Insights from Clifton Springs and Personality Traits
Renee reflects on her top personality traits and the insights gained from Clifton Springs, emphasizing the importance of understanding individual differences in creating inclusive environments.
00:22:03 - Challenges in Discovery Process and Proposal Parameters
Renee delves into the challenges of project fees and the discovery process, discussing the need for clear communication and establishing parameters in contracts to manage decision-making timelines.
00:29:41 - Marketing Strategy and Networking
Renee shares her marketing strategy, focusing on continuous networking, speaking engagements, and online presence to connect with decision-makers and engage in meaningful conversations within the nonprofit sector.
00:30:48 - Building Strong Referral Partnerships
Renee discusses the importance of referral partnerships and collaboration with others in the industry. She emphasizes the value of amplifying each other's work and highlights the win-win nature of such partnerships.
00:31:50 - Inclusive Decision Making with Boards
The conversation shifts to the involvement of boards in strategic planning and hiring decisions. Renee shares her experience with inclusive decision-making and the importance of staff involvement in such processes.
00:34:16 - Involvement of Boards in Hiring Process
The discussion delves into the involvement of boards in the hiring process. Renee mentions that while the board is sometimes involved, there is mutual respect in the organizations she works with, minimizing tension in the decision-making process.
00:35:22 - Business Confession - Life as a Consultant
Renee shares a lighthearted confession about an unexpected situation during a work meeting, highlighting the real-life challenges of running a business while being a parent and pet owner.
00:39:47 - Connecting with Renee
The episode concludes with information on how listeners can connect with Renee and the Ross Collective. The importance of networking on platforms like LinkedIn is emphasized.
Find Us Online: https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com
Connect with Renee:
Connect with Renee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reneerubinross
Website: https://www.therosscollective.com/
Connect with Cindy:
Cindy Wagman Coaching https://cindywagman.com
Fractional Fundraising Network https://www.fractionalfundraising.co/
LinkedIn: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/cindywagman
Connect with Jess:
Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jess-campbell-outintheboons/
Transcript:
00:00:00
Welcome to the Confessions podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman Wagman. And I'm Jess Campbell. Where two former in house nonprofit pros turn coaches and consultants to purpose driven organizations. After years of building up our separate six figure businesses from scratch, we've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and lived to see what sticks.
00:00:20
We're on a mission to help other nonprofit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale their own businesses past the six figure mark by pulling back the curtain. Whether you're still working in sudden on profit and thinking of one day going out on your own, or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofits is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it. No more gatekeeping, no more secrets.
00:00:54
This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful, successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like. Basically, we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid, and what has and hasn't worked in their businesses. Listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad, and the ugly. When it comes to building a nonprofit coaching or consulting business, we're going to empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one. You ready?
00:01:29
Let's go. Hey, Jess, are you there? I know, you're funny. I'm trying. We're recording today a bunch of interviews, and of course, technology isn't always in our favor.
00:01:42
So Jess is here, and we'll probably be on and off the conversation. We'll try, we'll try. But we are so excited to welcome Renee Rubin Ross to the podcast. Renee is the founder of the Ross collective. Welcome.
00:02:02
Oh, thank you. So cool to be here talking to the two of you. Well, I feel like you're one of those people we haven't met before, but I feel like I know you already just because you are so prominent in the sector and I've been watching your work for years. So I'm really excited to have you on. Thank you.
00:02:20
Oh, my gosh. That I was thinking about. What are we going to talk about? Like, this could be a very multi day conversation. Exactly.
00:02:26
We keep saying, saying, oh, I wish we could. You know, we're just going to have you back. Like we always say after these conversations, it's like, when can we do this again? So, Renee, tell us a little bit about your business and how you get paid. Yeah.
00:02:40
So the core of our work at the Ross collective is inclusive strategic planning that focuses on equity. Sometimes I am leading these conversations and processes on my own, and then often I am leading them in collaboration with black indigenous people of color, colleagues. I identify as a white person and consultant. And then another. Is it kind of three pieces?
00:03:08
I also run the Cal State East Bay nonprofit management certificate program based in Oakland, California. We're now online, so pretty much have people zooming in to learn from around the country, sometimes even around the world. And I teach strategic planning and board development for the program. And then the third part is, as you mentioned, is writing thought and thought leadership and now, and some speaking and training as well. So kind of three pieces.
00:03:39
Fantastic. And what would you say? How do those pieces fit together? Is there one that you spend more time doing? Are they pretty equal?
00:03:49
Are some more fun and some more profitable? How do they, oh my gosh, that is such a good question. And, you know, it seems together. Yeah, I had a friend, a friend who is, and it's a very different kind of blog. And we were talking about my blog, which just, we just celebrated 100 posts.
00:04:08
So I've really gotten a lot of content out there. And he said to me, you know, I think you're, the way you use your blog is you're reflecting and learning, reflecting on what's happening in your consulting work and sharing and learning at the same time. And that's absolutely true. There is a sense of like, hmm, I'm trying to make sense of this alongside a whole bunch of other people. And what do you think?
00:04:34
And so it's not, I don't think of it as like broadcast. I think of it very much as a conversation. And I do get a lot of responses. But the funny thing is, so I guess somebody could say, well, you're not getting paid for your blog. But I find it, I really love being in conversation with a lot of people.
00:04:54
And I think that people do tell me that in terms of how people find the Ross collective, they come to the website and they're reading what we're sharing and then they are, we get a lot of referrals from the blog as well. So I think these pieces all, and we also get referrals from Cal State's Bay, sometimes from current students, sometimes from a student from four years ago who, I did a plan for this, so I did a strategic plan for this year. So I think these pieces kind of complement each other. Awesome. Yeah.
00:05:25
And marketing is still a big piece of work that we do as business owners. And so, but I want to come back to that, because before we go further, I know that your. Well, we've talked before about kind of your origin story or how you got started and how you ended up doing this work. And I know that's a really important part of your journey. So tell us a little bit about that.
00:05:51
Yeah, so I got a doctorate in education, and I got, what, many years ago, I got what I thought was my dream job. And the reason that I thought it was my dream job was because I was giving out money so people would come up to me and say, wow, oh, my gosh, that must be so exciting and prestigious. And you get to be part of the decisions. And so it was a thing where, from the outside, it seemed the pinnacle of my career, and then. But the internal experience of being inside this organization was that it was very hierarchical.
00:06:26
It was a lot about certain people having power, certain people not having power. It seemed that the male people in the organization were. Had certain advantages that women in the organization did not have. In the same way, there were times where board members said things that made me really, really uncomfortable and felt very disrespectful. So I was trying to make this work.
00:06:56
I guess the essence of it is that. That it was a lot about diplomacy and saying the right thing. And I really think, like, my zone of genius is actually having hard conversations and talking about truths that people don't want to talk about. Or that might be hard, but you need to get through them in order to get to the other side and let people feel seen and feel sense of belonging, blah, blah, blah. Bottom line, I.
00:07:22
Some time went by, I was like, I'm not really feeling very loved here. I eventually went to my boss after several years and said, I either want to get a promotion or I want to leave. And after a few months, I got my answer, and I was fine. At least they fired you instead of waiting for you to leave because you get severance and stuff. Oh, thank you for that.
00:07:46
And at the time, I was like, I failed. I'm a failure. I thought I had the best thing ever, and I've now been thrown out of it. And I really had to regroup and go through this moment of, like, what do I want? What do I want in life?
00:08:00
What is important to me? What am I trying to create? It was traumatic. I did not sleep for a few months. I did not eat.
00:08:06
But, you know, I really had to. Had to regroup. But the story has a happy ending because it caused me to think deeply about, what do I want to create? What kind of organizations? What kind of conversations?
00:08:21
Who am I in the world? And where do I add value? And the first thing that I did, honestly, was, like, in the first three months, talk to 100 people who are in my network and just say, like, how do you see me? Because I just needed to get over the yuckiness of that experience. From the ashes of this really hard thing came the Ross collective.
00:08:44
And it's like, yes, my artwork is hard. It's not. We have all kinds of things going on. It's complicated. But the big picture, I feel incredibly, incredibly blessed to be able to sit with people who care deeply about their work, who are talking about equity, who are building inclusive conversations, working on belonging, all of that.
00:09:04
So I'll stop there. And by the way, I have. As you mentioned, Cindy Wagman, I have written about this on my blog. At this point, it's like, man, if you have lived, you have had an experience like this. Most of us have, and it resonates with a lot of people.
00:09:22
Thank you for your origin story. Thank you for walking us through how you got here. Cindy Wagman and I have interviewed, maybe not quite nonprofit consultants, but, like, we're inching up there. And I would say that so many folks are still trying to figure it out. And I know you just talked about speaking with 100 different people and asking people and reflecting on your strengths.
00:09:49
And you even just said that your superpower is having those hard conversations or whatever. And I guess I'm just curious for people that are listening that are still maybe trying to figure. Lane, was there anything tactical did or did you do what? A lot of spaghetti at the wall at first and then refined? How did you get from where you started to, like, the services you provide today?
00:10:16
Yeah. Thank you so much for that. So I really. I definitely threw a lot of spaghetti at the wall. And many mistakes have been written about on my blog.
00:10:26
And there's probably more blog posts to write about as well. But I will say that. So. So, yeah, so the first thing that I was doing when I started was grant writing. And then, as I again, talked to some colleagues, and they said, you're.
00:10:41
You don't seem like a grant writer. You seem like somebody who really wants to be out there in the world. I recommend, I really geek out on Clifton strengths and love that as a tool to reflect on what you love to do. And I. There's a book called designing your life, which is all about.
00:11:01
It's from. I can give you the whole title. It's from the Stanford D school. It's about doing little experiments. And I think I really like that idea of, you know, you're not coming out as like, the complete, full package.
00:11:15
It's really about how do I try something and see what I think of it and then try something else and see what I think of that. When I did pretty early on, I did training in facilitation training, and then I immediately, in addition to doing the workshop, which was a couple of days, I immediately had somebody had one of the instructors coach me and did almost pro bono engagement with an organization. And I really loved doing that, too. So it was like, okay, I just learned how to do this and now I'm immediately going to try it out, win some supervision. So, yeah, gosh, there's a lot more to say, but I would say that some beginning answers.
00:12:01
Yeah. Awesome.
00:12:06
I would love to ask you about the people around you. So you're a collective. I don't know if you're like, I used to work for a collective, so I don't know if you like our collective in terms of how you make decisions, how many people are in the collective in your business. But also, I know you have a lot of partnerships and you work in collaboration with a lot of people. So I would love for you to just take us, pull back that curtain and tell us a little bit about the people you work with and what that structure is like and how that goes.
00:12:42
Yeah. So I feel, again, I just feel really, really fortunate that I get to collaborate with all these fabulous people. And that has been, by the way, that has been one of my, one of my areas of learning in terms of being a consultant, because at the beginning, I had a really hard one that did not go so well. I'm sure we've all been there and then tried and then had to breathe and figure out, well, what do I need to figure out? Let's find out that we together can run a meeting before we hop on a five or six month engagement together.
00:13:16
So currently, yeah, I have. I have done a lot of work with Crystal Cherry, who I know you've had on the pod last year. She's a great collaborator. She is a black woman in Atlanta. And we just connected virtually and then realized that we both shared this interest in talking about race and equity.
00:13:38
And we've led several conversations with boards and organizations, these kind of racial equity training, which includes talking about race and thinking about how can the values of an organization be reflected in terms of equity, especially for historically white organizations. And then closer to home, I have a couple of also BIPOC consultants whom I'm collaborating with now who are trained in the same facilitation methods and really thinking about, you know, this equity piece as we build these projects together, what's important. How do I, how am I, can I be transparent about the finances? How can I make sure that everybody feels fairly compensated? And by the way, I have been subcontracted by other people as a baby consultant in ways that didn't feel equitable and transparent.
00:14:40
And I love that you plural have been talking about this on the pod, too, because I think that's something that is so needed in the sector. We're just having a conversation about creating anti capitalist businesses. And actually, we were talking about one of the themes of that or one of the ways to do that is actually through transparency, that that sort of is a tool to redistribute power and information. So that's, yeah, we're huge believers. And I think as you talk about working in partnership, that's even more important.
00:15:21
One of the questions we get asked a lot are, I feel like, in slack, like, Jess has this great slack community, and someone just posted about rates and subcontracting and working in partnership, and I'm seeing this in my fractional fundraising network a little bit. Tell us about that journey and figuring out, like, is it, do we partner on projects? Are you part of my team? Is it a subcontractor? Like, what does that look like?
00:15:50
I don't want to say, like, legally, but structurally. And what have you tried that hasn't worked? And what do you find is working? So, yeah, so just based on my first bad experience, right. What I took from, one of the things I took from that is, like, I want to have a good time with the people that I work with.
00:16:09
I want to feel good. I want to enjoy the conversation with you. I want you to enjoy the conversation with me. I think about this, like, what kind of organ we are guiding people to build positive organizations where everybody thrives, and we want to model that as a team. And so really making sure that the people that you know that that's how it feels.
00:16:30
And if there's a question that comes up, if there's some tension, let's talk it through and to make sure that we have this kind of clarity, but more tactically, like, you know, Crystal and I, we have, we've partnered on projects. We've just said, okay, we're going 50 50. She's brought in some, I brought in some. And that's how we've, we've done it. Like, financially, there's other times where I'll say, okay, people have a day rate that they charge, and so they're working on part of the project, and they're getting that day rate, or they're doing a certain percentage.
00:17:06
The kinds of projects that we're doing now, I am looking at how many hours they're taking me or us, but they are project fee. I'm not doing anything hourly. And I also, I mean, it's really interesting with strategic planning, because so many, it means a lot of different things to people. And so sometimes people will say, I want a strategic plan. And then you kind of dig into it.
00:17:34
They're like, yes, we're going to spend 2 hours, whatever it is, we want to spend a half an hour. I don't know. You know, I'm exaggerating, but we want to. And then other times, obviously, six to nine months. So really trying to understand what clients are seeking.
00:17:53
And at this point, my minimum is like a day of facilitation I just can't take on. And probably over time, it's going to be like, maybe in the future it'll be like, all right, my minimum is two days or something like that. But it's just at the beginning, I think as a consultant, you want to be more open, and you also might have some mishaps, but it's not. I'm trying to think about what is really worth my time, and if I spend a day writing the contract and the proposal and the invoice and all that, then how much money be earning in the end? Awesome.
00:18:42
All right, we're back with another round of our rapid fire questions. Renee, you were in Oakland. What is your favorite coffee shop there? Oh, my goodness. Well, I will say that that's a really good one.
00:19:00
We have Pete's coffee, based in Berkeley, and it's really yummy. There's also this place called cheese board pizza. I'm cheating because they're not just coffee, but they do have incredible pastries. I actually have this bad habit, which is sometimes I will go to this. I have this class that I go to.
00:19:20
It's the bar method there I worked out, and then I immediately head for the cheese board pizza shop. All right. You're a runner. You do bar. What's your favorite form of exercise?
00:19:35
Yeah. So, yeah, I really love running. It really clears my head. And my running partner is a lawyer. We kind of process whatever's happened, and it's such a good way to be totally focused on the next step, literally our next physical step, and kind of and just tune out everything else and it feels like at the end of a run, which we live in the hills, so Berkeley Hills.
00:20:06
So it's pretty hilly. You're going up and down and up, down. Yeah, it is. But it's like everything else just seems. It's like the intensity level of everything has gone down from going running.
00:20:18
And so on my blog, we've just been writing on this series on leadership and practices for just staying balanced in these really challenging times that we're in. All right, you mentioned Clifton Springs. Do you know, Sasha, would you share your top five and bottom five? Oh, my goodness. Wow.
00:20:41
Well, my top one is strategic. And so that was really validating because I was like, yes, I do strategic planning. There's some stuff around relator which makes a lot of sense, too. I really love people in connecting with people and also individualistic, which I thought that was really, I do think a lot about as a trainer, as a writer, as a. All these different how, who's in the room, what do they need to hear?
00:21:09
What are they walking in with in order for them to feel that there's a sense of welcome, belonging and connection.
00:21:20
It even, like with, I like to cook and I will, you know, make pasta or something. And then each kid gets like their own pasta sauce or their own kind of cheese, let's say. Yeah. So really thinking about people are all different and that's like, that's a really, that's a great thing about our planet. So what do people need to in a certain, like, learning environment or whatever it is so that they, so that it's going to work for them.
00:21:50
Hmm. Amazing. All right, well, thank you for playing with us. Yay. You're welcome.
00:22:03
Okay. Another question that comes up all the time is around fees and project fees. And you just described to like what I think is quintessentially a challenge in our sector, which some organizations are fast to move. They get things done. So they might be like, yeah, we want this done in a day or two, but they might just be really efficient and going through the process with you.
00:22:26
And others are going to say it's six months and it ends up being like twelve. So how do you structure your contracts and relationships knowing that? Like, sometimes it's not always evident in the discovery process how they're going to behave? Well, a couple things. And gosh, that is a really good question.
00:22:51
And yes, first of all, we try to let people know that things do take longer than you expect. And it's not because of me. It's actually, it's usually on the client side, because, and it's actually not a bad thing. It means that there's communication in the organization, and so we want it. We are, you know, we're looking at part, the first part of the strategic plan, and we want to discuss it amongst ourselves and really let it percolate a little.
00:23:23
So that's, that's okay. But getting rid of the urgency on this, if possible, which is, you know, that kind of characteristic of what culture is to have that, that urgency. So how do we slow things down, being clear about what is doable within a certain amount of time? So if they're, if, for example, if we had an organization last year that approached us, they wanted to have their strategic planning retreat. They had already scheduled it, and it was going to be in like a month.
00:23:56
And it was like, well, we can meet and we can have an agenda, but we're not going to be able to collect a lot of data between now and then. We can collect a little bit, but not that much given the amount of time you have. Another thing that we've started doing is just putting in, in terms of a contract, putting in two payments, and the second one is by a certain date, which, and so if they don't finish, we'll continue to support them to the degree that we can. But yeah, the payment is due. Super helpful.
00:24:28
Just speaking to a little bit on this kind of topic and also how you mentioned, like a few statements back, that part of your time is spent sending proposals. Curious if you have, for example, we know that in the nonprofit space and take our decision buyers sometimes a little bit longer to respond and decide and pay. So I'm just curious, as someone who sends proposals as part of your business, I don't have to do that as much in mind because I just have a different business model. Like, do you put any parameters in place so that things get decided and you're not suddenly stacked with projects because one took a long time and one took a short time, how do you balance all that? Oh, my goodness, that is such a good question.
00:25:22
And I've definitely been thinking about it, and you're absolutely right. The deciding or buying cycle can be very slow. We had a, I sent off a proposal for strategic planning last May, and I thought that it wasn't going to come in. And I heard, you know, well, we're still deciding. Da da da.
00:25:42
We had some staffing changes and actually I have, I use ClickUp and everything gets tracked. In terms of the status, I think I put it in the no pile and then in December, I get this email, we'd like to start the process. It's like, okay. And it's fabulous organization. We're really, we're, we're kind of at the beginning, we're starting to work with them, and it's very exciting.
00:26:04
But so, so far, I have not put that language in. I've definitely said to people, yes, we're getting a lot of inquiries, and there's a lot of interest. And I, and I am, I am considering something like, we can guarantee this proposal for x amount of time. I think as things get just a tiny bit busier, I am, you know, that may be something that I may add down the road. Yeah.
00:26:33
And I do think that it depends what's going on. Sometimes organizations are willing to say, okay, we don't need to do the plan at this time. We can, we have a little bit of wiggle room depending on what's going on with them, too. But it's a really good question. Yeah, yeah.
00:26:51
It definitely comes up a lot. I know, as well. And I'm curious if you find that how an organization behaves in that discovery process is reflective of how they behave once you've contracted with them. So if they're slow, like this organization sounds like you just started working together, but is that slowness carried through into your time together, or are there organizations that are like, yes, we're ready to go, and they, and they hire you, and then they're really slow? Like, is there a correlation?
00:27:31
I think I would say it differently. I would say that, you know, what we're noticing is people are really, are really struggling. A lot of people are really struggling right now. And so there are just multiple things happening from multiple directions. And strategic planning is like drive the bus and also change the time.
00:27:52
I mean, it really is. And we try to let people know that, all right. I mean, last year I had a client, he said that he allocated one day of the week, like one fifth of his time for strategic planning, which I thought was really great. You know, we do meetings every other week in the kind of intense phase so that we're keeping, by the way, I meant to mention that before. So we're keeping these organizations on track.
00:28:22
But, yes, I will, I think, yes, that's absolutely true. And if you look at, can't remember the name of the book, but the idea that what you see, even just contracting, is exactly what you're gonna see where, when you get deeper into the organization.
00:28:43
Now I'm getting much better at finding out who is my contact person for this engagement, because sometimes challenges have come up when there's one person who reaches out and then next thing you know, that person isn't actually the person who can make the decisions, the final decisions about strategic planning, and there's all this big communication gap. So it's like, well, who is, who is the leadership? Who is the leader of this? Or the, you know, who is, or are the leaders who are going to make those final decisions and making sure that we are talking to those people?
00:29:24
So decision makers, how are you getting in front of them? What's your marketing strategy for getting in front of decision makers? Is that intentional? I know you do a lot of partnerships. I know you have this relationship with the East Bay organization.
00:29:41
So. I think that's like the golden ticket, right? Is to get in front of the decision makers. And it's a lot easier said than done when your clients nonprofit. So, yeah, I think of marketing actions as an ongoing process.
00:29:56
So it's really like every day and it's not for me. It's actually, I think it's maybe similar for the two of you that it's like, okay, I'm posting on LinkedIn. I'm not doing it because I'm not selling. Hey, I want to be promotional. It's like, hey, there's something on my mind.
00:30:11
What do you think? Again, it's more of a conversation, but so some of the things I am aiming to speak about once a month, I spoke last year at the SSIR conference and at NTC and a whole bunch of, you know, with stuff like Bloomerang and some of these other neon one, some of these other kinds of webinars. So aiming to speak once a month. I have my class at Calcades Bay connecting with people on LinkedIn, sending out my newsletter. A lot of networking conversations that just come up through different things.
00:30:48
I do have those referral partners and those, that has been like working with Crystal Terry. I've sent her business, she sent me business. I mean, and I, so having those, those people who are, who share your values but may not be doing exactly the same thing that you are, or even maybe you are, but you're in a different part of the country or whatever, I really believe that there is enough for everybody. And the more that we can amplify each other's work, like it's very win win. So, yeah, I also did work with somebody on SEO for my site, and some people find us through Google search, but we also have a lot of really strong content.
00:31:38
So it's like on the site. In terms of the blog and all. Of that SEO strategies, I feel like I still need to figure out or get better at. Oh, my goodness, you said so much. And a few things piqued my interest.
00:31:50
But I want to stay with this idea of decision makers because sometimes in organizations it's clear you're talking to the ED or one of the directors and they're responsible for figuring, like, making these decisions. But I feel like with strategic planning especially, there's more board involvement. And so what do you find that the board is particularly interested in this hiring or contracting decision? And if so, how do you manage that? How do you manage supporting the ED and managing their board?
00:32:30
I would say that pretty much every organization. So, yeah, the roles of the board, different boards are different. Sometimes now we're working with one organization and the staff is very much making decisions and the board is kind of almost just like standing behind the staff. Other times it is a little bit different. But I do really, again, like, this is what is it to have an inclusive process?
00:32:58
And I actually have a story on my blog about the time that we are all, there are a couple of us sitting in a meeting. It was the board president and the ED, and I think there was a little bit confusion about what this strategic planning retreat was. And the board president was like, yeah, I think the staff's not coming. And I was like, well, no, this is an inclusive process and it's really, really important that the people who are going to be doing the work going forward and who are really on the front lines of this work are there weighing in. So the staff, the leadership of the organization, not every staff member, but many of the staff members did come along with the board.
00:33:42
The story had a happy ending. So. So I would say there hasn't been too much tension. But I do, if it does come up, I really do just kind of talk about, well, nonprofit best practices are that the staff and the board would both come to the retreat. And do you find in the decision making process of working together that, because I know a lot of organ, a lot of consultants work with the ED.
00:34:16
The ED is like, yes, we're going to hire you, and then they take it to the board and nothing happens. So is the board involved in the hiring process with you? Typically, sometimes. What? So we'll have an initial consult and sometimes there are, it might be the ED and then the board chair or the strategic planning chair or somebody like that.
00:34:42
So, yeah, so the board is sometimes involved, but maybe, but mostly there's a lot of respect, mutual respect in these organizations that we've encountered. So we haven't really found a lot of tension in terms of that. This is amazing. So good. I guess we're lucky, maybe, because your.
00:35:05
Approach, maybe you're attracting the organization, organizations that are really well aligned value wise. And so that is one of your values, right? Is that collaboration and inclusiveness? All right, everyone's favorite question. We need your confessions.
00:35:22
Oh, my goodness. Tell us something that maybe you haven't shared elsewhere or might even be reluctant to share about your business. No. Well, I was thinking about what to share, and so. So I'm a parent.
00:35:40
Our kids are 16 or 14. I'm also. We have a dog and our little puppy, he's six now, and he's sitting right over there in the chair in my office. And so about a year and a half ago, I was running a meeting, and it was actually the info session for Cal State's Bay. There were, like, 60 people.
00:36:01
The person who was supposed to be helping with technical support had COVID, so she didn't make it. And so my dog, who's usually pretty quiet, started to, like, go, oh, you know? And I was like, uh oh, he wants to go out. But, you know, there's 60 people, and I'm doing the waiting room. I do not think that I can.
00:36:21
I'm sorry, puppy. You're going to have to manage. And so a little more time goes by. He barks again, you know, he barks again. And I'm trying to concentrate on running the info session, you know, the best.
00:36:33
He's looking over at me like, what are you talking about? And finally he, like, hops off the chair and just totally throws up on the floor of the. Of my office, and I'm just like, okay, this is it. This is the experience. I don't know.
00:36:50
I don't know if this is the kind of confession you want, and then. You have to sit there and finish, right? You can't even clean it up. Yes. This is the life of a consumer.
00:36:58
And clean up and clean up, you know, afterwards. But, I mean, you think, like, wow, this is. No, I feel like. I feel like COVID gave us all some good stories around that. I have a funny.
00:37:12
I was doing a webinar with fundraising everywhere, and my son, they were home, and he had this little, like, robot toy that made fart sounds. Oh, no. Like, remote controlled it into my office. And started making cards out.
00:37:35
Mortified. Thank God Nikki was hosting that. Nikki from fundraising everywhere. And I know her kids actually around the same age, so I was like, okay, we're good.
00:37:48
Yeah. I mean, if people only knew what, like, really happened behind the scenes, especially during the live stuff. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, yeah. I run several summits, and every single one, the last one was a live.
00:38:03
Like, so sick one. I was on a presentation. I had to put my screen off and drive on Zoom to go get her from her camp or something. It was like. So, yeah, I mean, this is just like, you know, you're.
00:38:19
You're a small business making it work. It's just all happening, not to mention technology. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before. So, obviously, we've talked about Jess's Internet problems today, but before we started recording, we're sharing more stories of all the tech mishaps.
00:38:39
But bottom line, restart your. Your computer, restart your Internet. Make sure it's plugged in. That's always the best advice. Anyways, Renee, thank you so much for joining us.
00:38:53
Where can our listeners connect with you? Oh, yeah, absolutely. So the Ross collective is our website, and you can go to the rothscollective backwards us. Subscribe and subscribe to our newsletter, which comes out twice a month. It's on racial equity, nonprofit strategy, and leadership.
00:39:15
So, yeah, and I am on LinkedIn as well. Met you guys there. Have to meet IRL sometime. Yes, I feel like LinkedIn is where most people are these days. So, yeah, go connect.
00:39:32
And thank you again for being part of the podcast. Awesome. Thanks so much. Thank you.
00:39:43
Awesome.
00:39:47
Thank you again for listening to the confessions podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can show your support in one of three ways. Number one, post a screenshot of this episode to your Instagram Stories or LinkedIn profile and tag Cindy Wagman and I so we can repost you. Number two, share this podcast with a fellow nonprofit coach or consultant. And number three, leave a positive review on Apple Podcasts that we can continue to grow and reach new listeners.
00:40:17
And, of course, make sure you subscribe so you can get the latest and greatest interviews as they drop every Thursday. And to our fellow nonprofit coaching and consulting friends, remember, we're an open book. And here to answer your burning biz questions. See you next time.