The Art of the High-Ticket Offer with Katelyn Baughan
"It's okay to have a small list. It's good to have a small list because they'll be more engaged. There are people who actually care about you." - Katelyn Baughan
The Art of the High-Ticket Offer with Katelyn Baughan
This episode zeroes in on the coveted goal for all consultants: securing high-ticket clients. We're joined by Katelyn, a nonprofit email consultant who's not only mastered the art of attracting premium contracts but has also built a thriving six-figure business. As a mother and entrepreneur, Katelyn is a testament to the power of integrating professional ambition with personal life, all while sidestepping the relentless hustle culture. She's unpacking her strategies for securing upper-tier clients and doing it in a way that honors her love for purposeful work and being a present parent.
Key Highlights:
Expert Positioning: Want to attract the crème de la crème of clients? Katelyn advises positioning yourself as an authority in your field. By polishing her professional presence and sharing her knowledge through various platforms—including podcast interviews—Katelyn has become the go-to consultant for sizable nonprofits seeking top-tier email marketing guidance.
Building Deep Relationships: High-ticket clients aren't just looking for transactions; they crave transformative partnerships. Katelyn tells us about the value of investing time and energy into understanding the unique challenges and goals of her clients. This relationship-centric approach isn’t just good business; it’s a fulfilling way to ensure meaningful, lasting impacts on the organizations she works with.
The Retainer-Based Model: Katelyn gives us the low-down on the stability and advantages of retainer agreements. By shifting to this model, non-profit consultants can focus on delivering consistent, high-quality work without the constant hustle for new one-off projects. It’s a win-win: reliable revenue for the consultant and ongoing expert support for the client.
Going Above and Beyond: Those high-ticket clients yearn for the personal touch, says Katelyn. This might mean an annual in-person visit or a tailored strategy that goes beyond the standard email marketing campaign, providing both superior results and a personalized experience.
Secure in her approach and clearly passionate about her work, Katelyn's experience and advice is invaluable for any consultant ready to step into the high-ticket space confidently. Embracing these strategies is about more than just increasing your fee structure; it’s about cultivating an environment where your expertise can truly shine and where the value you deliver is reflected in the relationships and results you produce for your clients.
Find Us Online: https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com/
Connect with Katelyn Baughan:
Katelyn Baughan (Linkedin): https://www.linkedin.com/in/katelyn-baughan/
Katelyn Baughan (Website): https://katelynbaughan.com/
Connect with Cindy:
Cindy Wagman Coaching https://cindywagman.com
Fractional Fundraising Network https://www.fractionalfundraising.co/
LinkedIn: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/cindywagman
Connect with Jess:
Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jess-campbell-outintheboons/
Transcript:
00:00:00 Cindy: Welcome to the Confessions podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman.
00:00:03 Jess: And I'm Jess Campbell. We're two former in-house nonprofit pros turned coaches and consultants to purpose driven organizations.
00:00:12 Cindy: After years of building up our separate six-figure businesses from scratch, we've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and lived to see what sticks.
00:00:20 Jess: We're on a mission to help other nonprofit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale their own businesses past the six-figure mark by pulling back the curtain.
00:00:31 Cindy: Whether you're still working inside a nonprofit and thinking of one day going out on your own, or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofits is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it.
00:00:53 Jess: No more gatekeeping, no more secrets. This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like. Basically, we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid, and what has and hasn't worked in their businesses.
00:01:12 Cindy: Listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to building a nonprofit coaching or consulting business. We're going to empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one.
00:01:28 Jess: You ready? Let's go.
00:01:32 Cindy: Hey, Jess.
00:01:33 Jess: Hi, Cindy.
00:01:34 Cindy:Today's podcast, we're diving into a guest who is an expert in email, which I know is your favorite topic, Jess.
00:01:42 Jess: Oh, you love it, too. I love it, too. You're right. But we're obviously not talk... Well, not obviously. We're not going to be talking about business... your business emails. This is her business is writing emails and doing email marketing for nonprofits. So it's such a pleasure to introduce Katelyn Baughan to the podcast. Katelyn from KB Digital. Good to see you.
00:02:08 Katelyn: Hi, guys. I'm so excited to be here. I've been excited for this interview for months. And I just can't wait to chat with you all.
00:02:16 Jess: I know. I feel like a long time coming.
00:02:19 Katelyn: For sure.
00:02:20 Cindy: Yeah. So Katelyn, for those who don't know you who are listening, can you introduce yourself and tell us how you get paid?
00:02:30 Katelyn: Sure. Hi everybody. I'm Katelyn Baughan. I'm the CEO of KB Digital, which is a solo consultancy. It's just me. I help mid to large nonprofits with their email marketing and I get paid by actually producing emails for nonprofits. So I help with the gamut of email marketing. I don't do much copywriting, but I do everything else. So I do the strategy. I help with production, reporting, sending, queries, all audiences, all that good stuff. And so I have a few clients that pay me on monthly retainers. And that is how I get paid.
00:03:15 Jess: I just because I think it's a different answer for different people. How do you define mid and large size nonprofits?
00:03:25 Katelyn: Oh, that's a really great question. So my... right now it hasn't always been this way. But my ideal client looks like a nonprofit that has a team of maybe four or more marketers that all have their expertise in a certain vertical. And they usually make over like six million, I would say, in revenue. I have had the smaller guys, but that has led me to where I am today, where I just have a few large, larger size nonprofits that can really afford the services that I offer and help me to maintain sort of a steady workflow over the year.
00:04:11 Cindy: I love that. And I love how specific you are in your niche, because it allows you to really speak to those people. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey to niching and trying a little bit of working or offering things to smaller nonprofits and how you kind of wove your way to this current offering?
00:04:41 Katelyn: Sure. So I've been in business now for about five years. When I started my business, before I started my business, I worked as a marketing manager at a small local nonprofit. Loved working for the nonprofit, but I really felt alone. I didn't have many other people on the team. I was one person that wore many hats, which was a great experience because I then got to use those things that I learned, those skills that I learned to become a consultant. So when I started my consultancy, I was just like, I'll take anything. I think we can all relate to this. I could take anything from anyone. I even tried working for a retail company.
00:05:22 Katelyn: And I just then realized, okay, I love nonprofits. I want to stick with nonprofits. I did a lot of work for small nonprofits. My first job was a CRM migration, which is kind of funny now that I think about it. I'm like, "Who was I to do that?" I did that for a small nonprofit. I did strategy, social, paid social, email, of course, but also I was helping with building websites and I was really doing everything. And I got to a point where I felt very overwhelmed and I took a step back and this was only last year. So I did that for many years.
00:06:02 Katelyn: And last year I took a step back and actually, Cindy, I worked with you and your coaching helped me realize, okay, let me figure out what I like, what am I good at? And what does the client want? What are people asking me for? And people were asking me to help with email marketing. And actually, when I looked at my client, it wasn't until you and I worked together, most of them were just doing email marketing. So it was about taking kind of where I was, what I was doing, and then building my services around that and stopping, trying to be something for everybody and just focus on doing email marketing for larger nonprofits.
00:06:47 Cindy: So, so good. As you're talking, one of the things that I think a lot of people don't say but feel is that working with large organizations can feel really intimidating because we assume that there's more expertise and hows and the imposter syndrome for consultants revs up the like, "But am I experienced enough? Am I bringing enough value?" I feel like I've observed a lot of people work with small organizations because it feels a little safer. It feels like more obvious that I have more knowledge in the big shops.
00:07:31 Cindy: So can you tell us a little bit, just break that myth for people and tell us a little bit about how you are able to, I mean, you have experience and that outside perspective in bigger shops has so much value and that even if your experience is in small shops, you still have a lot to contribute to the large shops. So tell us a little bit about how you work with them and just break that down for us, because I think a lot of people don't talk about that, but I think it shows up a lot in the decisions they make.
00:08:10 Katelyn: Yeah, that's true. And I started working with little nonprofits and doing as much as I could to help them. And once I got that big break with a larger nonprofit and started working with them, I actually realized they don't all have everything together. And there's so much to learn from them, but also there's so much that you can do to help them. Even the largest nonprofits, like one of my clients, is Amnesty International. I worked with their director of marketing and she's like, "We're a small but mighty team." And I'm like, "This is a small team?" Like to her, this is a small team.
00:08:51 Katelyn: And so they're all very lean still and growing and there's growing pains. And I really truly believe that you will not be taken somewhere that you're not supposed to be. And it took me a while to get that mindset, but really working on your mindset, like, "Okay, this opportunity is presented myself. Yes, I'm scared of it. Yes. I'm not sure if I'm good enough, but it's here for a reason." And I don't... but in just push past that, I think and just do your best. And I think that you'll really surprise yourself.
00:09:26 Jess: So as a marketer, what are some of the marketing tweaks you've made to attract those larger mid-sized organizations? Are you showing differently on social? Are you advertising differently? Is your inbound leads coming from referrals? How has that changed? And I guess I'm asking on behalf of the listener that maybe is where you were a year ago. Like they're working with smaller nonprofits, but they aspire to work with more mid and large scale organizations and they're just not speaking the correct language.
00:10:07 Katelyn: Yeah, that's a really good point. I think in the last year, I've really made an effort to become a subject matter expert in email. And so I've spent a lot of time learning as much as I can about email. I talk about it a lot on LinkedIn. I make sure that I'm sending out emails that are valuable to those large nonprofits that have tips and tricks and results and trends and that kind of thing. And so I really focused on trying to dig deep into being that subject matter expert.
00:10:47 Katelyn: In addition to that, I decided to pursue being interviewed on many different podcasts that I believe those types of people, like marketing managers, marketing directors that would hire me would be listening to. And so I made a list of those podcasts and reached out and tried to pitch myself to them. And then also on my website, I tried my best to make the website look as professional as possible because if you think about large nonprofits and what they're looking for, it's somebody who has a well-established brand, somebody has well-established processes. Most of the people that come to me do come from referrals, but I want to make sure that if they're referred to me and then they look at my website, they see that I'm a subject matter expert. And usually that decision of hiring me happens really quickly after that.
00:11:51 Katelyn: I don't do any advertising. I actually am not on social very often, except for LinkedIn is the only place that I found that my people really live. And so I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn and just trying my best to connect with people who could refer me like other consultants, like you all. And Jess, your community has been extremely helpful in doing that, connecting me with other consultants who have services that, you know, like a copywriter would be a great person for me to team up with. If the copywriter wants somebody to produce the emails, I can step in.
00:12:32 Katelyn: And if I need somebody to write the emails, I can pull them in. And so making sure you have that community really in place. So when people think of or someone comes to them, like do you know anyone that does the email you would think of me because I'm in your community.
00:12:47 Jess: Yeah, I think that that's so super smart. And I think that your approach to marketing fits really well with the channels of which people can actually hire you. So from what I'm hearing, you have a few clients that pay you on retainer versus more the one-to-many style offers. I think you do that maybe once or twice a year. But again, that you actually don't need hundreds and thousands of customers to have a successful business when you operate the way you're operating, right?
00:13:30 Katelyn: Yeah, I would agree. And I've been in a place where I've had like five different small clients where I'm doing five different things for them. And I decided when those contracts ended, some of them I had to end in order to really make my business fit around my lifestyle. I think that's an important thing to mention. I'm a mom of two and I am easily... not easily overwhelmed. I would just say I'm overwhelmed. I'm doing all the things for the family. And so for me, my business, it's really important that it fits in with that life. I can still get a workout in, do the dishes, make the the laundry and then also work in a flexible manner where I'm not working 40 hours a week.
00:14:24 Katelyn: And so in order for me to establish that type of lifestyle and the vision that I have for myself, I've had to build my business in a way that is a little bit simpler. So I work less, but make more and make sure that I'm focusing on the people who could pay the amount that I need to live this lifestyle that I want.
00:14:45 Cindy: Can you take us into some of those details? Like how many clients do you need to be able to do to have that balance and to be able to maintain the right structure where you are working as much as you want to work and making as much as you want to make?
00:15:03 Katelyn: Yeah, that's a great question. I have two clients that I have on a retainer and I provide them X amount of email production in a month. In addition, there's a weekly meeting and so I have it all very structured. So they know exactly in my contract what they're getting, anything additional on top of that is billed at an hourly rate. So I have one amount that I am getting paid a month from two people. And those are long-term 12 month contracts.
00:15:37 Katelyn: So for me, the type of personality that I have, I need to know that money is coming in for a long period of time. Some people can do the projects that stresses me out. I've done that, and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, the project's ending, what's next?" So I do that, the two retainers, and then I have some projects that I do on the side. I do auditing. So I do email audits that are just additional good tabs if they come in. And that's really it. And in some, I don't take much more than that because I'm very careful about where I spend my time.
00:16:20 Katelyn: And I also like to spend my time doing stuff like this, like podcast interviews or learning or updating my website. And I don't want to be really too busy and overwhelmed or else I will be very anxious and I don't want that in my life.
00:16:36 Cindy: I love that. I think so often people are chasing the one too many and I have to create a course or this or that, but that's not necessarily the fastest way to get to our goals. And you can have a pretty deep, meaningful impact with a small number of clients. Way less work. One of the things I think people struggle with is sort of selling that long-term retainer. Can you talk a little bit about that shift for you and how you started to, like is the process different with clients? Is it more work, less work?
00:17:17 Cindy: Obviously with referrals coming to you, typically that lowers the time it takes to close clients, but we know nonprofits and they always take forever. So tell us a little bit about the sales process and I don't want to say pitching because I hate that word, but talking to clients about long-term transformational impact in working with you as opposed to a clear deliverable with this project and then we're done and that kind of stuff.
00:17:51 Katelyn: Yeah. Well, with email, you really have to have an annual strategy for it to work. I think there's a lot of nonprofits that are only spending time on the fundraising asks and campaigns and then don't fill in those gaps of like, how are you engaging with these people over time? And if you don't do that, if you're not cultivating people, retaining them, then your fundraising asks or campaigns are going to fall flat.
00:18:24 Katelyn: And so a lot of times what happens is I'll do an audit or I'll help with just a campaign. And if it's for some reason not as successful as they hope, then we can go back and say, well, the reason why is because you need really an annual strategy and you need someone who's supporting you on a regular basis and making sure that you're hitting your KPIs over time of engagement and showing them how other nonprofits do that.
00:18:54 Katelyn: With that said, I've gotten really lucky. I've had referrals with one of my retainer clients I've had for almost three years now. And so I think just focusing on what you have in front of you and doing the best that you can, it naturally happens. And I don't know if that's the answer. I don't have a sales process that's like the ticket to finding these people. It's just doing the best that you can and making sure that you have this goal in mind and saying yes to the things that make sense and no to the things that don't so that you have this space to accept what may come to you. So it's not, you know, I don't have a magic formula. I've just gotten really lucky and know what I'm looking for and have the strength to say no to the things that come that don't really match up with that.
00:19:53 Jess: Yeah. Which is really hard to do. I mean, just saying no is maybe one of the more challenging things we have to do as business owners. I want to switch directions a little bit just because you are an email marketing expert. And we talk about this a lot, or at least Cindy tries to say this thing around the cobbler shoes or something. And I'm curious if what you teach your organizations or what you produce for your organizations you practice specifically, like you just said the word KPIs, what are some KPIs you measure in your email marketing strategy that you would recommend other nonprofit consultants do in their own businesses to assess if they are being successful?
00:20:40 Katelyn: This is so funny. So I guess this can be my confession. I didn't do, I didn't have an email list until like this year, I want to say. And so as an email marketing expert, you would think like I also practice what I'm doing for my clients, but that's not true. So I do have an email list. I do this year, I did start emailing a weekly blast to my list. And so I have a weekly blast that goes out. Sometimes I miss it. If it's a busy week, it's not always every week.
00:21:21 Katelyn: And My personal KPIs are just engagement and adding value to my people because I'm not necessarily trying, unless it's a product, which I've only done one of those this year. I'm not necessarily trying to get them to buy anything, I just want my name to be in their inbox. I want them to feel like they're getting something from the email that I'm offering them. They're learning something.
00:21:50 Katelyn: And yeah, I mean, segmentation is important. So making sure that you're segmenting your list for people who are leads versus clients like you would want to send a client, maybe a special thank you, gratitude email or something like that, but definitely not as detailed or as I send out emails with mistakes in them sometimes. And with clients, I would never do that. So I think I'm more laid back with my own strategy as when you compare to what I do for my clients.
00:22:25 Jess: I appreciate the honesty. Okay. So as, and we all, we all have it. So as someone who's just started her email list in the last, let's call it 12 months, what are some ways you work to grow it? I'm asking because I feel like, you know, people who started their businesses seven, eight, 10 years ago had a way different jump than it is today. And I do not envy someone starting from scratch right now. It's hard. It was hard then, but it's really hard now. And so I'm just curious what's some things you've tried that you find work or if you're still kind of cracking that nut.
00:23:13 Katelyn: The thing that's worked tremendously for me is going on other podcasts and that when people register or webinars, sorry webinars, not podcasts, webinars, hosting webinars. When people register, I get the entire list. So I did I think four or five of them this year and grew my list exponentially from that. And so, and this is going on other people's webinars. So a lot of tech providers like Network for Good, we did one with Good United, another one with Bonterra. And so going in and reading a webinar is a great way to get emails.
00:24:08 Katelyn: And I think just mentioning to people that you have an email list, making sure that if you're on LinkedIn, they know that you have it and putting the link there. Another really clever thing that I've done is if people schedule one-on-one with me on my Calendly, I have it connected to my email service provider so that when they sign up, they're added to the list. And in the invite, it says by scheduling a meeting with me, you're automatically added to my email list, feel free to unsubscribe at any time. And so that's been a great way to just slowly, as you meet people, they get added to your list and it's a good way to just keep track of them over time and make sure you're communicating and cultivating those relationships.
00:24:57 Jess: Okay, Katelyn, we are back with another round of our rapid fire questions. You ready for playing?
00:25:04 Katelyn: Yeah, let's do it.
00:25:05 Jess: Okay, so one of the questions I have about working with your high ticket clients is around customer service. So what is one thing you do either ongoingly or maybe towards the end of the year to just really make your customers and clients feel extra special?
00:25:27 Katelyn: I like to do at least one in-person visit a year. I think that having that in-person face-to-face interaction is something that we're really missing these days with Zoom and everything. And so I make a point to go to wherever their office is and take them out for a meal or drinks or something like that.
00:25:50 Jess: Oh, I love that. My next question, we are recording in early December and I'm curious, does your family have any favorite holiday traditions?
00:26:01 Katelyn: Of course. We celebrate Christmas and so one of my favorite holiday traditions is we go to this light show where you can walk around and you can get a hot chocolate. It's at Brookside Gardens in Maryland and so we do that every year. And we have tons of other traditions, baking cookies is my other favorite because I'm a baker. And so me and the girls, it's a huge mess, but we love to bake cookies and I have a cookie exchange and anything chocolate related is my favorite.
00:26:37 Jess: So super fun. And then my last question is, what's your ideal day of self-care?
00:26:47 Katelyn: This is a great question. Okay, wake up with no kids, have breakfast alone with coffee, go to the gym, take a shower, get a massage, take a nap. And no kids until days later.
00:27:09 Jess: Emphasis on the no kids.
00:27:13 Katelyn: Just a full night sleep. A full night sleep without anybody coming into bed with me would be great.
00:27:17 Jess: Ah, totally. I totally concur. Okay, thanks for playing.
00:27:24 Katelyn: That was so fun.
00:27:28 Cindy: Hmm. I love that. And I feel like I just saw this conversation actually, I think, in Jess's Slack channel, because I do that too, with people who book meetings. The one thing I would say, don't do it for just anyone who emails you. I think that that's happening a little bit not with you, Katelyn, at all. But I feel like someone just said they were added to a list or without their knowledge or I have just literally email interacted with people and been added to their email list from that, which is not the same.
00:28:00 Cindy: But when someone books my time, if they're asking for that, then I do also have the like, and you are joining the email list. So I think it's an important distinction just to sort of call out. And I think it's absolutely fair and reasonable to, that's like an exchange, right? I have two questions. I'm just trying to decide what to ask. Let's start with... because I feel like people listening will be asking this because I get it all the time.
00:28:32 Cindy: When people are growing their email list and they're doing that through those webinars or trainings with tech companies, I think a lot of people, it's kind of like the Wild West out there where I feel like a lot of tech companies do things in their own way and they're figuring things out. And sometimes they offer things, sometimes they don't. How do you navigate that so that you are getting those email lists, even if they're not offered up to you as part of the initial conversation?
00:29:06 Katelyn: Make sure it's part of the initial conversation. Like I will do this for you for free if in return you give me the list of registrants. I've never had a problem with it. But I think I work with people who are really aligned with my values and I've never had a problem with it. But it could be definitely be a problem, certainly. So I would just make sure you're communicating that beginning. Yeah.
00:29:41 Cindy: The follow up question I know everyone's gonna ask, especially because we're kind of just talking about opt ins is what do you do you just add them to your list? Or do you do as a welcome for them? What happens after?
00:29:55 Katelyn: Right. For these few that we did, I was a part of a collaboration with two other consultants where we were selling a product. We were selling year-end DIY package. And so in every webinar that we did, we were teaching people how to launch their year-end campaign. And then we would give them the link to the package if they wanted to purchase it.
00:30:21 Katelyn: So when we sent in, we added them to our list, but they got a specific email that was like, "Thank you for attending this webinar. Here's the link to the recording. If you're interested in purchasing the DIY kit, here's the link to that. Oh, and also you'll be added to my email list. Feel free to unsubscribe at any time." I use this language all the time in my emails, even at the top of your email, like your welcome series, feel free to unsubscribe at any time.
00:30:55 Katelyn: I want people to know what like big, bold, unsubscribe, underlying hyperlink like, "Please unsubscribe if you don't want to hear from me," because I don't want you on my list, if you're not going to engage, you're just bringing all my numbers down, so you want your people on your list and it's okay to have a small list. It's just, you know, I think it's good to have a small list because there'll be more engaged. There are people who actually care about you.
So I would just make sure that you're setting up these journeys that are really cultivating people before they enter your weekly blast or whatever.
00:31:34 Cindy: That's awesome. And I can't tell you how many times people ask about that. So I think your experience is super helpful. And yes, give people the out, right? As you said, you don't want them. It messes up all of your metrics and everything. So… that's so great.
00:31:51 Jess: Don't waste the pretty.
00:31:53 Cindy: Don't waste the pretty. Was that on our mastermind call that you talked about that, Jess? Yeah. That story. For anyone who wants a reference, go back and listen to the recording we did with our mastermind. But yeah.
00:32:11 Katelyn: Mastermind. Which mastermind?
00:32:14 Cindy: Jess and I recorded. So we have a small mastermind where, and we were in person together this past summer. So we recorded a podcast episode in during the drive. And it's on the podcast from the summer. I can't remember exactly. Okay. I want us to make sure that we get through to Confessions and rapid fire. So yeah, anything, we could keep talking, I feel like forever. And there's so much both around email.
00:32:49 Cindy: I also really just value the conversation about that like high ticket, not too many clients, like that is something I think our sector needs to hear a lot more of because we don't have... hustle culture is not a thing anymore. So yeah, I really appreciate you sharing all of that. Before we wrap up, share with us a confession about your business.
00:33:20 Katelyn: Sure. I think you, at the beginning of this, we're talking a lot about work-life balance and that's something that I have built my business around, but it hasn't always been that way. And two years ago, I think I got too many clients at once and was trying to do all of the things and had a really terrible anxiety attack. And I don't always share that with people because it is very personal to me, but it's something that I think everyone should hear is that these things happen and you want to make sure that you're protecting your mental health. And that's something that I was not doing.
00:34:07 Katelyn: And even though I was preaching it. And so it was a great lesson for me to learn. And now I've really made sure to like set up those boundaries of when I start working, when I stop working, how many clients I take at once, how many hours I work a week, because we all have so much going on outside of work that we need to pick and choose really what we're spending and prioritizing our time on. So that is one of my confessions and I still struggle with anxiety sometimes as well. So I just wanted to share that with everyone because I think it's something we can all relate to.
00:34:51 Cindy: Absolutely. And it's those things that we don't see from the outside, right? And so many of us struggle at various points with so many different parts of mental health. And we're really good at hiding it. So I really appreciate you sharing that because it's so important to keep in mind. And one of the benefits of being an entrepreneur as we get to create space to experience those things and not feel like we have to show up to the team meeting the next day.
00:35:24 Katelyn: So yeah, yeah. But like you said, we all know from the outside, you would probably never think that about me. And so I'm just share that, that's my confession. Thank you.
00:35:38 Cindy: All right, Katelyn.
00:35:39 Jess: Okay, Katelyn. Yeah, are you gonna wrap us up, Cindy?
00:35:40 Cindy: Yeah, where can our listeners connect with you and find you in person and online?
00:35:49 Katelyn: LinkedIn is the best place to connect with me. And my last name, I know it's hard to find and spell is B-A-U-G-H-A-N.
00:36:00 Cindy: Amazing. Katelyn, thank you so much for being part of the podcast and for sharing, like I said, I think our sector, our fellow consultants, really need to hear what you had to share today. So thank you.
00:36:14 Katelyn: Thank you for having me. It was really fun.
00:36:18 Cindy: Thank you again for listening to the Confessions podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can show your support in one of three ways.
00:36:30 Jess: Number one, post the screenshot of this episode to your Instagram stories or LinkedIn profile and tag Cindy and I so we can repost you.
00:36:38 Cindy: Number two, share this podcast with a fellow nonprofit coach or consultant.
00:36:42 Jess: And number three, leave a positive review on Apple podcasts so we can continue to grow and reach new listeners.
00:36:48 Cindy: And of course, make sure you subscribe so you can get the latest and greatest interviews as they drop every Thursday.
00:36:56 Jess: And to our fellow nonprofit coaching and consulting friends, remember, we're an open book and here to answer your burning biz questions.
00:37:03 Cindy: See you next time.