balancing in-house and consulting work with Julie Ordoñez
"The real win is who I'm becoming, that I'm becoming a more resilient person, that I am becoming someone who is more courageous, more kind. I'm learning perseverance in a real way. I'm learning staying power. Can you just stay? Can you just keep going? That's what entrepreneurship is, right ?" – Julie Ordoñez
In this podcast episode, we’re joined by Julie Ordoñez, a major gifts strategist and coach. She is also the founder of CourageLab, a 6-week accelerator where ambitious nonprofit leaders get the courage to ask for more and raise major gifts. Julie walks us through her personal journey of building her own business (as a side hustle), her strategies to attract ideal clients, her own struggles and challenges in growing her business and how she overcomes them. Tune in now to gain valuable insights and inspiration for your own entrepreneurial journey!
Highlights:
Julie’s personal journey on transitioning her fundraising skills to the business world
The importance of investing in business and marketing strategies
Money mindset on fundraising vs business
Attracting the right clients and letting people go in your business
Developing courage and resilience in entrepreneurship
Connect with Julie Ordoñez:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julieordonez
Website: https://julieordonez.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/juliemordonez/?hl=en
Twitter: https://twitter.com/juliemordonez
Courage Lab : https://www.couragelab.co/
Find Us Online: https://www.confessionswithjessandcindy.com/
Connect with Cindy:
Cindy Wagman Coaching https://cindywagman.com/
The Good Partnership https://www.thegoodpartnership.com/
Connect with Jess:
Out In the Boons: https://www.outintheboons.me/
Transcript:
00:00:00 Cindy: Welcome to the Confessions Podcast. I'm Cindy Wagman.
00:00:03 Jess: And I'm Jess Campbell. We're two former in-house-nonprofit pros turned coaches and consultants to purpose-driven organizations.
00:00:11 Cindy: After years of building up our separate six-figure businesses from scratch, we've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall and have lived to see what sticks.
00:00:20 Jess: We're on a mission to help other nonprofit coaches and consultants looking to start or scale sell their own businesses past the six-figure mark by pulling back the curtain.
00:00:30 Cindy: Whether you're still working inside a nonprofit and thinking of one day going out on your own or you've been running your consulting business for years, you understand that working with nonprofits is just different. We're giving you access to the business leaders who serve nonprofits as their clients. You know, the people who truly get it.
00:00:52 Jess: No more gatekeeping. No more secrets. This podcast is going to give you an inside look at what running a successful nonprofit coaching and consulting business looks like. Basically, we're asking people how much money they make, how they get paid, and what has and hasn't worked in their businesses.
00:01:11 Cindy: We'll listen in as these leaders share their insights, their numbers, and the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to building a nonprofit coaching or consulting business. We're going to empower you to make the power moves that give you the income and freedom you set out to create from day one.
00:01:28 Jess: You ready? Let's go.
00:01:32 JessWelcome back to the podcast. We have one of my dear friends on the show with us. We've got Julie Ordoñez. You probably know of her on LinkedIn. She shows up big or you know of her program, Courage Lab, and we are here to talk all about her business. Julie, welcome to the show.
00:01:52 Julie: Hi. Thanks so much for having me. Hi, Jess. Hi, Cindy.
00:01:57 Jess: This is going to be so fun. For everyone who may not know you as well as I do, please tell us a little bit about yourself and your business that you run that serves nonprofit clients.
00:02:13 Julie: I will do that. Hello, I am Julie, and I am the founder of Courage Lab. It's a six week accelerator for ambitious nonprofits who want to get the courage and strategy to ask for more and raise major gifts. So that's the primary way that people work with me. I started teaching people how to raise money in 2018. I had a friend come to me and was like, "Hey, I just heard you put in your two weeks notice at your job." I was a development director, and I didn't have anything lined up, and I didn't know what I was going to do next. I knew that I needed to take a break and stop working 60 to 65 hours a week for years on end, including evenings and weekends, as we all know. And so I needed a break. And then my friend asked me, "Hey, I need to raise millions of dollars. I don't know what I'm doing. Will you help me?" And I was like, "Yeah, sure."
00:03:20 Julie: And I worked with them for nine months , and we did a 90 day public campaign, and we raised over $5 million in cash in those 90 days. And I was like, "Oh, this is really fun." And I like this. And it's a different skill to teach people something that you had been doing , right? And then that word got out about that, and just other people that I knew in the nonprofit world reached out, and it was more like, maybe more traditional consulting. And then I realized that people don't just need a consultant or a coach or a mentor, they need accountability. They need community. They need peers.
00:04:08 Julie: And so I can tell someone like, "Hey, this is what I think you should do. You have this billionaire who's giving you $10,000, and obviously they could be giving you a lot more." And people would be like, "Yeah, you're right . I'm just not really comfortable asking them for more." And that would be the end of the story, and it would drive me nuts. And so I started Courage Lab because I was like, "Oh, there's nowhere in the marketplace where you can go and get stronger internal courage." Like work on your personal character with a fundraising skill lens. And I'm like, "Why is nobody talking about this?" Everyone's terrified. Everyone's terrified. They're all scared. They're so scared to talk to all these rich people about money. They have so much money. They have so much money like, "Come on, come on, guys, we can do this."
00:05:16 Julie: So Courage Lab is a group program for that reason, and I've been running it for a few years now, and it's really fun. Last cohort I did, there were 16 people in it. That was really cool. That's kind of like a sweet spot for me, having that many. So I'm all about major gifts. That's all I do is teach people how to raise major gifts. I think that is the way to go. The only thing that could really hold a candle to that, I think, is having a monthly donor campaign. But especially if you haven't hit that 500K a year revenue mark for your nonprofit. I mean, I think we all agree on that. You should be focusing on individual donors.
00:06:02 Cindy: I have a question, because most people who come on our podcast who have a group program also have some other revenue streams, because I think most of us find it hard to run a group program in the sector. That's one of the things I think we're hearing consistently. But you've been doing this probably for a little longer than others. So do you take one on one clients? Are there any other revenue streams, or have you cracked? I don't even know how it gets. Do you have the golden goose and have you figured out how to replace a full time income with once money.
00:06:46 Julie: No.
00:06:50 Jess: I love it. We're all about the transparency here.
00:06:53 Julie: Let's look at 2022, and we can talk about numbers. Jess, you know me. I love numbers. I'm a numbers gal. Okay, so revenue last year was like 103,000 something and change, right? So little more than barely six figures. But I want to say, it's a caveat that I took a two month long sabbatical after I did my cohort of Courage Lab in Spring. I was like, "I need a break. I'm tired." I also work full time as basically a major gift officer. My title is senior philanthropy officer at New Story. It's a global, affordable housing nonprofit. There's a lot of domestic and international travel associated with that role, but it's super flexible. I'm remote. New Story is very innovative in many ways. And so that's partly what drew me to it and what allowed me to also run my business and serve nonprofits , because they don't really care when I work or how much I work, as long as I'm meeting my goals and raising money. Last year, I raised two and a half million for NewStory from individuals, and my business did 103,000, and it was from 45 customers. So I don't know what the average spend is on that, but it's good.
00:08:37 Cindy: Most people would die to have a six figure business. And you're doing six figures as a side hustle. That's pretty awesome.
00:08:46 Julie: Yeah. Thanks, Cindy. It's really fun, and I love business and I love fundraising, and I took the job at New Story when my business is really taking off. I didn't need it. I just wanted it because I still want to be doing that for my own personal reasons like the impact that Julie wants to have in the world includes also raising money and helping people raise money. So I just really enjoy it, and I am obsessed.
00:08:46 Julie: I want to answer your original question, which was, is there any other way to work with me? Yes. I have a one on one hybrid. It's my VIP offer. So it's called six-figure VIP, and it's designed to help people raise six figures from major gifts. And you do that in three months. Three to six months. But usually by the three month mark, you've raised at least six figures. So it's like a one-on-one slash small group hybrid where any live training or coaching that I do is in a group. And some of the customized major gift strategy happens one on one. So you really get me as your thought partner and like, "Okay, look, we've raised six figures, so we need to raise that much in fewer amount of time." So it's for people who are like, they already know how to close 10K 25K gifts, now they're asking people for multi-year commitments. They're asking people for six-figure gifts, and this is the first time that they're really doing that. So they're preparing a proposal. They’re thinking about long term growth and recurring revenue. So that's that offer that I have.
00:10:46 Julie: Right now, I have two of those clients, and that's a high end offer. So last year's price was 25K. This year, I'm planning on doubling that just because of the results that people get short term and long term. I keep in touch with my clients that I had in 2018, and they're raising millions of dollars. They've closed seven- figure gifts, multiple seven-figure gifts, and still reach out to me and are like, "Hey, I just closed $2.1 million from that guy, remember?" And I'm like, "Holy shit. That's amazing." And that's the reason for the price hike there.
00:11:38 Jess: Okay, so I want to back up a little bit and think of questions because I know your business so well. We are friends. I always get this one, predecessor. You are my success or at a job. You took over a fundraising job once Liz came into the world. People on this podcast know that story, so I'm trying to ask questions for Liz, with fresh eyes. One of the things that I think you are amazing at is lead gen for the right customer. You are unapologetically, I think priced well, definitely. But I would say compared to other nonprofit consultants on the higher end for a six-week program or for, like you just said, your VIP offer. So finding the right clients, not just right or the right leads excuse me, not just any old leads, is really important. And I'm curious if you would talk us through some of the strategies you've done to draw in or call in people who can frankly afford your programs, who are also ready to raise major gifts.
00:13:00 Julie: Yeah, that's a great question. I think that I've done a lot of work around messaging and understanding who my potential perfect client is and who are they really, and who do they long to be, because my program and my offers address their identity. And I think that messaging goes wrong when you're not getting to the heart and soul of the matter, and you're just talking about results, which people want results, and they definitely get them. But I'm appealing to somebody who has a massive vision for their nonprofit, and they are maybe right now a little bit apologetic about that, but they see themselves in the future as much bigger than they are right now. And that's who I'm talking to. If you talk to cheap people, you're going to attract cheap people. I don't know. I mean, that's my job.
00:14:17 Julie: I think I definitely did that in the past. I definitely did. And I think there's a distinction between messaging to offering value for free is distinct from talking to the person who is stuck in that lack and everything they don't have and everything that's not possible, because the first step towards raising more money is being able to invest in yourself. And I remember you guys did, I think. Yeah, you had [Rhea Wong] on, and she talked about the distinction between an expense and an investment and that most people don't understand that. And that's exactly right.
00:15:05 Julie: I have people come to me all the time who are like, "I really get the value. I really want to do your program. Oh, my gosh, I know you can help me. You're the one I've been to your podcast every single day, and I listen to the last episode that you did three times," and I'm like, "Well, shit, what else am I supposed to do to get to convince you?" Nothing. So it's like you got to be able to just let people go and stop trying to twist somebody's arm and convince them. There is price objection or time objection , and we need to be able to address that. And then there's just people who are committed to their excuses, they're committed to why they're going to stay small, and they want to wrap you up in that story. And that is not any of my business.
00:16:08 Julie: And I've been on calls with people, and they're like, "Well, when I push them to do more, especially with that person, happens every damn time. It doesn't matter if they're in a tiny ass market. It doesn't matter where they are. They got some high roller who is really engaged, who they text with, and they refuse to ask them for more money." I'm like, "Okay, so how committed are you to raising more money then?" And they're like, "Well, I don't have to. We have enough." And I'm like, "Oh my God, I can't help this person. I'm talking to the wrong person." I'm talking to the wrong person.
00:16:51 Jess: And so what did you do? Did you fire them?
00:16:55 Julie: Yeah, I just let them go. I'm like, "Okay, I hear what you're saying, and just so you know, you're not going to grow. Okay. So have a nice life."
00:17:08 Cindy: This came up recently in our network of consultants where we were saying there's this weird thing of small organizations or mid-sized organizations who are just like, "Status quo, we're good," and such potential, such amazing opportunities, sitting on strong networks and great existing donors. And there's something about the mentality of working with nonprofit clients that I think is just like especially with us in fundraising, where they're just sort of complacent and this is the way things are supposed to be. But I want to circle back because one of the questions going back, because you said you've invested a lot of thought and time into your messaging. And of course I'm like a big nerd, and I want to know what resources like what frameworks or books or podcasts do you listen to or have you invested in developing that messaging with other people? Share your wisdom.
00:18:22 Julie: Thanks. Yeah. Right now, I've worked with coaches in the past. I've been in memberships. I've had a mindset coach. I've had a sales coach, worked with people one-on-one, been in different groups for entrepreneurs. And right now I'm working with an agency where I'm getting business strategy, marketing strategy, and some done for you stuff. I just hired someone to sort of optimize my social media because that is a really big legion for me. So I've invested a lot of money into my business and something that I had to learn was the voices of talking to nonprofits where they aren't my customer, but maybe they get me all riled up. I'm like, "Oh, my God, stop doing that." And I just want to pull my hair out when I see them do something that I think is just so boneheaded because we have energy or passion or anger around that. I think it's easy to create content and messaging around those things because they're hot topics, and then you end up attracting those types of people who you are perturbed with. And I had to learn that I was doing that, but I was like, "I'm fed up with these people," but then I just keep the conversation going with them and that's kind of an amateur move. So I think Jess is going to nod her head right out of her chair there.
00:20:12 Jess: I've never heard anyone say that succinctly. And it's just something I get all festered about because I watch it and I'm not trying to be like, "My content is so innovative and so great," but sometimes I'm like I'm either so bored or I'm so turned off by other nonprofit consultants content because it's so based in fear, so based in negative, so doom and gloom. And I just literally an hour ago was on my LinkedIn feed and I was commenting on something from [Brickelli of Peda]l and I was like, "You're always upbeat, you're always entertaining, and damn if I don't learn something from you." And it's like that's the kind of content people want. And you're going to attract people that are upbeat, entertaining, and not doom and gloom. And I just have never heard that. And I just have never thought that, yeah, the content you put out there while you are trying to think to people's pain points is just like attracting those pain points. I don't know. That was really good, Julie.
00:21:28 Julie: Oh, thanks. Yeah, I did it for a while and I was like, "Why can't people afford my program? It's awesome." Hello? Yeah, who are you speaking to? Who do you really want to serve? Do you really want to serve the people who have no money? Really? Are you for sure? Is that really who your ideal client is? Why is that? Let's talk about why you might think that is. You might think it's really noble to help the person who has raised the least amount of money. There's a point of view of I want to help as many people as possible and help everyone. I don't. I've actually realized I want to help the right people who are going to max out everything God gave them. And if you haven't raised at least $100,000 on your own, go out there and shake every damn tree you possibly can. Starting a nonprofit, you are an entrepreneur. How else do you think this shit gets done?
00:22:57 Julie: And I think we enable people to have a scarcity mindset, where it's like, "Well, life is hard, and these are hard times, and we're in the beginning of a recession," and boohoo woe with me and all this shit we can't even control. I'm like, "You know what? There are people out there have figured it out." They figure it out. They find the money. I tell people, sometimes I tell people that when I'm feeling generous, I'm like, "Well, you know what? I've had people pay for this all out of their own pocket." I would say that more than half of the people who go through Courage Lab pay for the whole damn thing themselves. And there's a reason for that because they're like, "Well, I'm committed to doing this. Whether or not my employer pays for a dime of it." That's the kind of person I want in my program anyways. Isn't that the kind of person you want to invest in? Who's just like, "You know what? Screw you. I don't need your approval. I'm going to get this done. I'm going to become a better leader, and I'm going to invest in me." That's the person I want. That's who I want.
00:24:02 Cindy: I love that. And they're going to go out and get a better job after being successful with the work that you teach them.
00:24:09 Julie: Hello?
00:24:10 Cindy: Yeah. And they're going to get paid more, and they're going to get all the other things. So I'm so living for this conversation, but I don't have the pleasure of having known you for a while. So I have to ask, is this always you? Or like I know you said you've worked with coaches and mindset. So is this something that has been a journey for you to get to this point of unapologetically like you know your value, and it's amazing everyone can learn from this. Has this always been the case, or if not, what's been your journey to mastering this money mindset?
00:24:53 Julie: No. Has not always been like this. They say the thing you preach about the most is the thing that's your struggle or the thing that you need the most. And I created a program called Courage Lab. No, I think that I've been a coward in my own fundraising work. I think that when I first started my business, right at the tail end of year one, I was so close to giving up. I was like, "Oh, no, I'm not doing this. I wasn't getting any clients. I was not helping anybody. I was miserable." I called my friend who had started her own floral business here in Southern California, and she just does these gorgeous weddings and she's amazing. And she does the whole time. And I called her and I was like, "I can't do this. I don't know how. You're an entrepreneur. This is terrible. I'm a loser. I'm a failure. I don't have any clients. What am I doing?" And she was like, "Julie, the first year is the hardest. You have a real perspective and a real point of view and you have so much value to bring people in need what you have to bring. You cannot quit. You just can't." She's like who is actually profitable in their first year in business. I would like you to show me who that is. She's like, "It's kind of normal." And I was like, "Oh, okay."
00:26:48 Julie: I think there was another time, like months later, that I was really close to quitting, too. And I have an amazingly supportive husband and I have community and just people. And Jess has definitely been there for me big time, learning from her experience and just being a friend because it is hard. It's not for everyone. Some people, they just need to not do this and they need to be working for somebody else and that's good. That doesn't have anything to do with your value or worth or identity. I think that you have to be resilient. And then that's how I've learned to be. I didn't start out like that. I think I've become that by just not giving up and thinking about my impact, my vision, who I want to be, what I'm committed to creating in the world. Why am I even here? Why am I here? And answering those kinds of questions and community kept me going.
00:27:56 Jess: Okay, Julie, we are back for another round of rapid fire questions. Are you ready to play?
00:28:02 Julie: I'm ready.
00:28:04 Jess: As a Houston native turned Angelino, Tex-Mex or California-Mexican food?
00:28:12 Julie: Oh, Tex-Mex. Hand down. Don't even need to think about it.
00:28:16 Jess: That's the wrong answer, but that's okay. Who is your current favorite follow on social media?
00:28:33 Julie: Who? Jerisha Hawk.
00:28:35 Jess: She's good. She's really good.
00:28:36 Julie: I really dig her whole thing. I just like her as a person. I think she's really smart. I'd love to work with her one day. She's probably on my list. I think she's great.
00:28:49 Jess: Awesome. I know you love to travel. So where are you booking next?
00:28:58 Julie: I'm probably going to San Francisco very soon. I'll be in Atlanta in a couple of weeks. Nowhere too exciting.
00:29:09 Jess: What about dream trip, you and Trey? Where are you going? Hypothetically?
00:29:17 Julie: I would love to go to Greece. I would love to go to Portugal and back to the UK would be great.
00:29:30 Jess: Nice. Well, you'll have to talk to Cindy offline who's planning a summer Greece trip. Thank you for playing.
00:29:39 Julie: Thank you.
00:29:43 Jess: You know how they say people fear public speaking more than death? I don't think that asking for money was on that list because I think it would be right up there. And as someone that does that professionally who now runs her own business, I'm curious what you think people and I know not everyone that podcast is like a fundraising consultant, but I'm curious what the difference is in asking for business versus asking for money, what that experience has been like for you personally. I can personally share that asking for business is a gajillion times harder than asking for money. I can raise money on behalf of a mission I really care about. No problem. Oh, but get me to pay a fee or get me to sell a fee is uncomfortable for me. Is more uncomfortable for me. So I'm curious because you fit so well in both, what that's been like for you and how you always talk about courage as a muscle, how you've flexed that muscle to be so brave and courageous when it comes to commanding those value based prices that are reflective of your worth.
00:30:58 Julie: Yeah, that's a good question. They're both scary. I mean, last year I asked for more six and seven figure gifts than I ever have. And considering everything that I asked for, I raised two and a half million, roughly. And it was really challenging, really. And I didn't think I had it in the bag. With business, it kind of flipped for me a little bit. I think the first few years, it was like fundraising was less personal, but I was... I don't know, but I think it's changed now. And I had a really kind of strange relationship with sales and having sales calls and sales conversations, whereas now I'm like either take my help or don't, I'm just offering to help you, and I will help you. And there's no one better to help you with this problem of being a coward and talking yourself out of asking for more. No one is better suited in the whole wide world to help you with that than me. I just know this.
00:32:36 Julie: I have just too much evidence now, right ? I have clients who email me all these results and text me and tell me, "I just got off the phone with this donor and they said wow, your approach really works. I'm going to give you 10K. Here you go." I have people who just tell me this all the time, and I'm a practitioner, right ? So I'm doing this shit myself. I'm practicing what I preach, literally. So I know that it works because I'm doing it, right . So at this point, there's just too much evidence. I felt like a failure raising two and a half million because my goal was much higher than that, and I was like, "Boohoo! Okay, I feel like a failure, but that's not the reality." This is a moment, and the real win is who I'm becoming, that I'm becoming a more resilient person, that I am becoming someone who is more courageous, more kind. I'm learning perseverance in a real way. I'm learning staying power. Can you just stay? Can you just stay? Can you just keep going? I mean, that's what entrepreneurship is, right ? So, I don't know. Now with sales, I'm like, "Look, there's so many who are out there who really need this, and I'm here to help. If you're ready to take my help, I will help you." I can't be more committed to helping someone than they are wanting to change.
00:34:16 Jess: I'm wondering if this kind of transition back in house and being a practitioner has somehow helped you on the selling side of your business.
00:34:30 Julie: I probably have, because I'm just getting more reps in, right ?
00:34:37 Jess: Totally. That's what I mean.
00:34:38 Julie: Even in that sense, it's probably very helpful because I'm just like talking to people about money all the time.
00:34:48 Jess: Yeah, totally . Okay, I want to switch gears just a little bit because one thing that I've just noticed as an observer is that you have really started showing up on LinkedIn. And you and I are OG Instagram nonprofit consultants, back when not very many people were doing that. And it's a totally different playground. And I'm just curious about your experience showing up on LinkedIn, the ROI of investing in that platform. Compared to something like Instagram, I would say that this audience is more like a LinkedIn crowd. But I see you very present on that platform, and I'm just curious what those results have been and why you keep showing up there.
00:35:45 Julie: Thank you. I like LinkedIn, so it helps if you like to hang out there.
00:35:53 Cindy: And I think we should take that into account.
00:35:55 Julie: If you hate it, hey, how about don't do that. What a concept, right? I like LinkedIn. It's great for me to go there. To me, the purpose of Instagram is to inspire, right? That was their original purpose. And so you have all of these inspirational, aspirational things on Instagram, which just kind of vibe with who I'm trying to talk to. But LinkedIn to me is a really great place to share thought leadership, and that's more my style, anyway. I'm not really trying to inspire you so much as I'm trying to get you to change the way that you think and take action as a result of that paradigm shift. And I feel like LinkedIn is conducive to that.
00:35:55 Julie: People have definitely found me on LinkedIn. They join my mailing list because of LinkedIn. It is the number one place that is a lead generator for me. And I post on there every single day, pretty much. Probably not on the weekends. So Monday's, Friday's, it's just really easy. There's no graphic needed, there's no nothing. You just freaking open it up and you just start freaking writing, dude, that's it. You don't have to produce some real or get camera ready or get some animated graphics. All that's cool and great. And if you like that, then freaking do that.
00:37:58 Julie: But I just think that for me, I just have an endless amount of things to say, and I like what other people have to say, too, on LinkedIn. I go there and I'm so fascinated. I'm like, "Oh, this is interesting. You can easily share articles. You can easily share any kind of link. You can still also post graphics. I think that's great, too . And right now, in particular, it's super difficult to break through the noise on Instagram. But LinkedIn, there's just all of this momentum for growth, and they're incentivizing the algorithm there. So I feel like it's just primed to just show up and give it a shot, and I enjoy it.
00:38:30 Cindy: I love that. And this is now, like LinkedIn is now one of my goals for the second half of this year. Showing up like everyone else is doing amazingly. Okay. Something you said before really stuck with me. I would say Jess and I both have tiny object syndrome a little bit. We are always like, "What's different ? What's new? What do we need to change? What do we need to develop?" You said staying power, and based on what I know, you have created this part. You went out on your own with the Courage Lab, and you have stuck with the Courage Lab. Now, you know it works, which probably helps.
00:39:17 Cindy: But I feel like sometimes, I see people in our sector and I experiences where I'm constantly looking at all the other things instead of just leveraging that continuing to invest and grow and build one thing and do it really well and get known for that, which I think is what you've done. So I would love for you to talk a little bit about the commitment you have to that staying power to overcome all the other little things that come with it. But it sounds like you've been really focused, and I admire that, and I want to know how you do that.
00:40:01 Julie: Thank you, Cindy. You guys are just making it feel so good. This is nice. Same time next Wednesday? Yeah. Okay. I appreciate that. I created Courage Lab at the intersection of what my zone of genius is, what I want to do. Like really. Not what I think I should do, not what other people are expecting, or maybe what other people do who sell major gifts, training and courses and all that shit. I'm not trying to do what other people do. I am not a membership person. I know this. I do not want to run a membership. I want a start and an end date. That's what I want. I want to have a clear timeline. Okay. It's going to be six weeks. Six days? I can do that. I can do six weeks. You know, I don't want to see you for six months unless I really love you. I just don't.
00:40:04 Jess: I feel the same way. So I think it's really good to know that.
00:41:07 Julie: Yes. And this comes with trying things and being in all of these different containers myself and investing with different coaches and training and memberships and masterminds and all of that. I've invested in all those things and I'm like, "What do I like? What do I enjoy?" I am really great at getting people started taking action. I'm not somebody who's going to walk alongside you for a super long time, for twelve plus months and slowly help you develop progress. No, we're going to go fast and hard and sprint. I love sprinting. I'm not a long distance runner. I crafted my offer based on all of these things.
00:42:04 Julie: So that and I really love live teaching and coaching and speaking. That's my jam. And that's what people want from me. So yeah, I think Courage Lab has evolved over time and there's been small tweaks. I was doing it all live when I first started and I was like, "Yeah, this is stupid. I'm saying the same thing over and over again. I'm going to record this." So automation. Great. There are some things I don't ever have to say again. I'm like, "Listen, I got 2 hours of video content. You can listen to it for 2 hours and it's going to rock your world." And so that's something that's now copyrighted. I have that till kingdom come. It's evergreen. I know it's evergreen because I still do this. So it's going to help you, right ?
00:43:02 Julie: And then the stuff that is more personalized, I can do that live. And it's so fun. The days that I run Courage Lab, and I do my live coaching are my most fun days. I'm like, "I love life and I'm just having a great time." And you see people have those light bulb moments that's so energizing for me. And to see people really take action, that's what I love. So I think it's just being unapologetic about what you really want to do. You're the one who has to live this life. You're the one who's going to have to execute on this. So you better do something that you actually like to do. And I think that maybe that's a really annoying answer, but it is the reason why I think I've been able to stick to it because I really do enjoy it. And I've tried stuff that wasn't working and just optimized it.
00:44:02 Jess: Yeah, I think I looked at people like you or our friend Tanya, like these folks who just like you guys. Either you caught it, you liked it, you stuck with it. And it's just so smart because it's true. I think of major gifts. I think of Julie Ordonez, I think of LinkedIn strategy, I think of Tanya. And I think people come to someone, maybe like me. I'm not going to speak on behalf of Cindy, but they're like, she does kind of a lot of things, and I'm not really exactly sure what and I'm just now, like five years in trying to carve out what I want to be known for, but it's taken a really long time, much longer than it should have. So we admire you and talk to you for sticking to the course. Okay, for our last question, we always like to ask our guests about their confession, a confession you might have about being a nonprofit consultant that people might not know, a confession about something you want to work on. Julie, what is your confession? Cue the Usher song in the background.
00:45:07 Julie: Great song. I think that it's been more difficult than easy, this journey. And you might look at all of my stuff. You might see something, see an image online and think like, "Oh, she's figured it out," or, "It's going great for her." Or you might hear some of these numbers and aspire to have that. But I'm telling you that this has... I mean, it almost broken me a few times. Going through a pandemic and running a business online and being a solopreneur and then hiring a virtual assistant to help me, and it was just me and my VA and trying to build something from absolutely nothing. That was hardship. I think that's just kind of how the cookie crumbles. And maybe we have expectations that it's supposed to be.
00:46:19 Julie: People use all of this language, especially we're in California, so we talk about being in flow, and I see this wave of people talking about it should let it be easy and come with easy. I don't know who or what or how. Excuse me? I'm sorry. Everything that I've created, that I've built, that I've done, there is not really much that has been easy. Please stop saying this to people. I don't understand why we're telling people this. I think maybe there's a distinction between flow and ease, but I agree. You can be right when you're doing something that is in your zone and you love and you're good at and it's helpful to people, time just goes by, right ? It just flies, and you're just like, "Wow, this is so easy." And that's cool, but building a business is not easy. I'm not sure I understand why people buy into that messaging, of course, but I don't think that's something to really aspire to. Maybe let's let that go. There's things that are more valuable than ease, and actually ease doesn't really serve you that much. If everything is easy, then what are you made of?
00:47:53 Cindy: Julie, we could literally talk all day. And the golden nuggets of wisdom that you are dropping. And I just really appreciate the sentiments that you're sharing, because I think that we set people up for failure when we don't talk about these things, when we don't talk about the fact that it's not easy and there's hard times and it still can be worth it. And also, life is not easy so thank you for sharing that. And so articulate. I want to say articulately, but yeah, we could talk, but we can't. So I want to ask you where our listeners can be in touch. I know people are going to have questions and just want to connect, even follow you on LinkedIn because you are so wise. So where can they do that?
00:48:58 Julie: Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. It's just Julie Ordonez. And I'm also on Instagram @juliemordoñez That's me. Yeah. Reach out.
00:49:13 Cindy: Amazing. Thank you so much for being part of the podcast.
00:49:17 Julie: Thank you.
00:49:21 Cindy: Thank you again for listening to the Confessions Podcast for nonprofit coaches and consultants. If you enjoyed today's episode, which I sure hope you did, you can show your support in one of three ways.
00:49:32 Jess: Number one, post the screenshot of this episode to your Instagram stories or LinkedIn profile and tag Cindy enough so we can repost you.
00:49:40 Cindy: Number two, share this podcast with a fellow nonprofit culture consultant.
00:49:44 Jess: And number three, leave a positive review on Apple podcasts so we can continue to grow and reach new listeners.Jess: And number three, leave a positive review on Apple Podcasts so that we can continue to grow and reach new listeners.
00:49:51 Cindy: And of course, make sure you subscribe so you can get the latest and greatest interviews as they drop every Thursday.
00:49:57 Jess: And to our fellow non-profit coaching and consulting friends, remember we're an open book and here to answer your burning biz questions.
00:50:05 Cindy: See you next time.